Catholic social teaching is as old as Catholicism; the Scriptures themselves teach the basics of economic justice. Our Lord reminds us that the laborer is due a just wage for his work,[1] for example; the Didache tells us that greed is wickedness,[2] and that “advocates for the rich” shall be condemned.[3] Christian thinkers from St. Augustine to St. Thomas Aquinas and beyond have dedicated themselves to political and economic thinking in light of the Catholic faith.[4] However, formalized economic teaching from the Magisterium is a relatively recent thing; its pioneering document was that of the great Pope Blessed Leo XIII, Rerum novarum.
Rerum novarum has been received less than enthusiastically by modern economic thinkers; some, even Catholics, argue that it was based on ignorance[5] or even that it has since been changed.[6] Nevertheless, the correct attitude of the Catholic toward this great encyclical was enunciated early on by Pope St. Pius X, in his own encyclical Singulari quadam:
Therefore, in the first place, we proclaim that the duty of all Catholics is… to hold firmly and to confess fearlessly the principles of Christian truth, handed down by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, especially those which Our most wise predecessor explained in the encyclical letter Rerum novarum.[7]
This is binding teaching, to which the Catholic owes faithful acceptance. Rerum novarum, and its daughter encyclicals from later popes, is the blueprint for Catholic economic thought, the schematic to which all our bricks and mortar must conform.
Rerum novarum was unpopular in some circles because it identified deeply rooted flaws in all the currently popular economic systems, particularly those called capitalism and socialism. Against socialism, for example, Leo XIII unequivocally defended private property[8]; against capitalism, however, he insisted that the state had the right and duty to limit the use of private property.[9] Against socialism, he defended the legitimacy of the wage contract[10]; against capitalism, he insisted that wages must be just, and that the justice of a wage is not dependent merely upon the going market rate.[11] He affirmed that the rights of individuals must be respected[12]; but he also held that the government should make a special effort to protect wage-earners against the richer classes.[13] The great pope also defended many other practices condemned by capitalists, including the use of state authority to resolve labor disputes[14]; the mandating by legal authority of Sunday rest[15]; the injustice of unrestrained competition[16]; and the injustice of wage contracts, even if freely agreed to by the worker, which do not allow “proper rest for soul and body”[17] or which are insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner.”[18]
Pope Leo identified four primary problems with the prevailing economic situation: the lack of workingmen’s guilds; unrestrained competition; usury; and the concentration of property into few hands.[19] All of these problems, though, really point to the last; the lack of a reasonable alternative to the guilds, the unrestrained competition of our so-called free market, and the usurious practices of our business all result in the overconcentration of productive property into the hands of a few, wealthy capitalists. This remains the defining characteristic of our current system.
At first, this assertion seems counterintuitive. As one prominent Distributist has pointed out, “when we waltz into our local Wal-mart,” it appears that there is “a rich variety of products provided by a vast number of firms, a situation which affords entrepreneurs many opportunities to enter the market and workers many places to sell their labor.”[20] But while our economy appears to be diverse in this way, in reality the producers’ club is quite rarified. Almost all beers, for example, are produced in factories owned by only two companies, Anheuser-Busch InBev, which holds 50% of the American market,[21] and SABMiller, which owns a tad less than 30%.[22] This takes up offerings like all the various Bud brands, Coors, Miller, Molson, Beck’s, Labatt’s, Busch, Bass, Stella Artois, and more (not to mention some Mexican beers owned by Grupo Modelo, of which 50% is owned by InBev). This is only one example, and not even the most egregious. Optical products|eyeglass and sunglass frames particularly are almost all owned by Luxottica. You may buy some Ray-Bans, Chanels, or Oakley’s; but they are all owned by Luxottica. Lenscrafters? Luxottica. Sunglass Hut? Luxottica. Pearle Vision? Luxottica. And so it goes. The media–even on the Internet–are owned and run primarily by only eight companies: Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, News Corporation, NBC Universal, Viacom, Time Warner, and Disney.[23] A whopping 93.5% of server processor microchips are made by Intel; another 6.5% are made by AMD.[24] The list goes on and on.
And such market concentration is a definite problem, as the Pope himself pointed out. Indeed, the fact that “the hiring of labor and the conduct of trade are concentrated in the hands of comparatively few” is a problem so severe that it has laid “upon the teeming masses of the laboring poor a yoke little better than that of slavery itself.”[25] Nor is this mere hyperbole; as the great Catholic historian Hilaire Belloc observed, wealth is necessary to human existence, and “[t]herefore, to control the production of wealth is to control human life itself.”[26] Capitalist society’s tendency toward the ever-increasing concentration of the means of producing wealth, then, is also a tendency toward the control of life by the owning few, exercised on the non-owning many. This limits the economic, and therefore political, significance of the bulk of the population while giving the few owners of productive property a great deal of power over the state.
The great pope ended his encyclical with an appeal to Catholics throughout the world:
We have now laid before you… the means whereby this most arduous question must be solved. Every one should put his hand to the work which falls to his share… Those who rule the commonwealths should avail themselves of the laws and institutions of the country; masters and wealthy owners must be mindful of their duty; the working class, whose interests are at stake, should make every lawful and proper effort.[27]
And Catholics responded, attempting to imbue their societies, so corrupted by the revolution, with the principles of a Catholic social order. They devised systems which would apply those principles toward definite goals in particular societies. One such system acquired the name “Distributism.”
Distributism attempts to resolve these problems by recourse to an ancient principle of social interaction, distributive justice, the concept from which Distributism takes its name. Justice in general is, of course, “the greatest of virtues, and ‘neither evening nor morning star’ is so wonderful.”[28] More specifically, distributive justice is that virtue “according to which a ruler or steward gives to each one according to his own worth.”[29] The importance Distributism places on distributive justice is supported by Leo XIII himself, who taught that maintaining distributive justice toward all classes of society is “the first and chief” of a ruler’s duties.[30]
Distributism applies the principle of distributive justice to property, particularly to productive property. Pope Leo taught us that “[t]he law… should favor ownership, and its policy should be to induce as many as possible of the people to become owners,”[31] noting that “[m]any excellent results will follow from this; and, first of all, property will certainly become more equitably divided.”[32] It is clear, further, that Pope Leo is speaking here of the distribution of productive property, not property simply, for he continues by arguing that this policy would greatly increase production, and the only type of property he specifically mentions is land, the epitome of the productive asset.[33]
The just distribution of productive property defines Distributism; indeed, one of its founding lights, Hilaire Belloc, defined what he called “the distributive state” in just those terms.[34] While in a socialist society none are owners, and in a capitalist society only a few are owners, in a Distributist society most are owners of productive property. This is the defining characteristic of Distributism: the widescale distribution of productive property throughout society, such that ownership of it is the norm, rather than the exception. Such distribution is the best way of ensuring that the economic rights of man are respected; that men can pursue their livelihoods with the greatest possible independence; and that society can exist as a single harmonious whole, without the vicissitudes of class hatreds and constant economic unrest which plague all of our current systems.
Look for Part II next week.
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at 11:08 AM
Your ideas are completely wrong. This does not promote economic freedom, it is pure slavery. In capitalism is where true freedom flourishes. If you are in debt or don’t have a job than YOU need to fix it. Nobody forced you to go into debt, that was your choice, if you don’t have a job, that’s not the banks fault, go get one, live on less, sell your house, there are ways to make it. Society owes you nothing, the government owes you nothing. Stop expecting everyone else to provide for you. The attitude of entitlement is what is killing this country. You are entitled to the freedoms and protections that the constitution gives you, that’s it.
at 11:53 AM
Nathan, have you read the article? I cannot really see the connection between your critique and the article (except that you are pro-captialist)…
at 4:04 PM
Nathan, what happens when there aren’t enough jobs? When companies increasingly outsource their labour overseas until most of society’s needs are provided for off-shore? Where do these jobs come from?
at 4:05 PM
If society and the government owe me nothing, than I owe society and the government nothing.
Gosh, how did I miss that part if the Gospel where our Lord tells me I owe nothing to my neighbor.
Love those libertarians!
at 5:13 PM
stephen, when there aren’t enough jobs… then you go into business for yourself, you create your own job. you wash other peoples clothes, cut other people’s grass you do what you have to do… to provide for your self. As a christian I have a responibility to help those who cannot help themselves when and if I can, but I can NEVER expect anyone to lift a single finger to help me.
at 5:43 PM
Nathan, your analysis is completely individualist(which is itself a modernist and not traditionally-rooted, Christian attitude.). It takes none of the structural realities of any economic system into account and is therefore simplistic to the point of being useless. The same pretty much goes for Anthony; hard work is important, but there is only limited social virtue in it alone as the basis of a society’s economic arrangement.
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Anthony’s comment leads me to a point about Donald’s article. I think, among distributist, there is still too much of a focus on the same sort of purely and narrowly ‘economic’ parts of the economy. Today, in the West, there is more insecurity and hardship than many capitalists will like to admit, but the problems are primarily not in simply providing jobs(well when there is not a massive recession anyway.) and the basic, material income and goods. I think any introduction to distributism needs a significant place for those areas of life outside the narrowly ‘economic’, which capitalism fails to satisfy. I mean the neglect or attacks capitalism makes on the family, Church, community and on good work as well as on the individual’s personal life and the Christian, traditional, distributist alternative vision. This is an answer to Stephen Paterson’s recent questions for me, this is how we make distributism appealing in the modern, corporatist, consumerist, welfare state; by stressing its non-economic(strictly defined.) vision. Many people will be unswayed by talk of owning one’s own business, but start talking about more dignifying, interesting work, breaking down consumerism and rebuilding communities and some will start paying attention. I’m not talking here about some of the more metaphysical comments on work and humanity that I made in the past, but the views of those like E.F Schumacher in his Good Work. That work is important to distributist, it is time to make it even more so and even more central. But maybe Donald planned to address this in Part II.
at 6:04 PM
Anthony, not just anyone can go into business for themselves or go into subsistence living. A certain skill set is required that was once passed from generation to generation, but was wiped from most of the population during the industrial revolution. This is the reason that the same few families go into business – a child growing up in an environment where their family is in business for themselves has a distinct advantage over a child who’s parents are wage-slaves.
What happens if you happen to live in a neighbourhood where mostly everyone is out of work? Where only a handful of people can afford to hire someone to cut their lawn, etc. How many times can a lawn be cut?
In any case, I think you and Nathan are missing the entire point of this article. Distributism isn’t about promoting a welfare state – it is about ensuring that market share is shared justly. It is about promoting an economy and a society where a large percentage of the population can go into business for themselves without living in fear of going out of business tomorrow if they make one small slip up. It is about encouraging people to be successful in business without swallowing up the entire market share and driving everyone out of business. It is about promoting the principle that business owners view each other as brothers working together to build a just society, not as competitors who have to kill or be killed.
at 7:10 PM
I am just learning about this by reading an article of another web site. I lean towards being a Libertarian, however I have latent socialistic tendencies if that makes sense. I do agree with Nathan, the government cannot give you anything it first does not take from someone else (not my quote) but this system seems interesting and I will read up on it more. Thanks for having this informative site.
at 9:26 PM
Wessexman, sorry I missed your comments. Yes, you’re right of course. The problem is that most postmodern people are too materially minded. They look at our ideas and sigh, musing, “hmm, wouldn’t that be nice, but I’ve got a wife and kids, I’m falling behind on my mortgague payments, and I haven’t had a holiday in years. Get back to me when I’m more in control of things.”
There is a definate spiritual void in our society that needs to be filled with something other than horoscopes and yoga. I think part of our task is going to be showing people that there is more to life than their material needs and wants. Perhaps we might consider what role distributists might play in the new evangelisation?
at 7:47 AM
Nathan echoes vile Objectivism and its diabolical premises. Objectivism is easy to demonize because it is, in fact, evil and demonic.
at 8:28 AM
I think the Acton Institute in Grand Rapids, MI has basically debunked the distributist framework. Might be worth checking out their writings.
at 9:18 AM
Roger, I am sorry to hear that because the Acton Institute’s vision of Distributism is pure fantasy.
at 9:44 AM
I’m confused, is this an economic site or a Catholic site? As a non-Catholic, I couldn’t even skim past the first 5 or 6 paragraphs.
at 9:45 AM
I don’t understand the hatred spewed at distributism by capitalists. If anything, distributism seems more “capitalist” than the current form of “concentrated capitalism” we have now. Unless I misunderstand distributism completely, it essentially advocates that instead of a few concentrated capitalists, there should be more widely distributed capitalists (where capital=ownership of the means of production). Concentrated wealth, like concentrated government (which both basically equate to concentrated power) is rarely a good thing.
As it stands, entrance costs to “starting your own business” are so high that it is near impossible to do without the high failure rate that exists today. Perhaps a good way for government to help would be to reduce the entrance costs to starting your own business. Less government, more business. How could any conservative be against that?
at 9:51 AM
What distributism does is offer is a fantasy about the nature of man’s temptations and reactions in the face of material shortage or abundance. The most empirical evidence suggest that there is a marginal reaction to needs according to one’s own disposition for their needs, and this evident through any system of property rights/distribution/communal sharing. What is not evidenced is how the system of ordering economies holds an ability to affect the marginal reaction of the people who participate within and among it. This aside, Capitalism is the ONLY system which allows people to act in any form they individual choose. Within capitalism, individuals may acts as a socialist, communists, or re-distributist whatever – so long and they are sufficiently charitable to allow participation to be voluntary, not unlike a monastic community which share their efforts and goods in kind.
at 9:57 AM
@ c matt – One thing which is absolutely certain and in agreeance with the ‘physics’ of economics – the less government involved, the less concentrated the system capitalism becomes. Significant work has been completed regarding monopoly and competition theory, and the most easily understood outcome is that some form of outside regulation or market control is necessary for firms to hold a long term position at the head of any industry, so while there will always be leading and lagging firms, without government intervention the leading firm participants will forever be rotating with new actors temporarily experiencing the benefits of being the choice vendor to the market.
at 10:26 AM
Sorry, but RogerP, you’re quite wrong. It is the Austrian capitalists who are believing in fantasy. History bears that out time and again. And the Acton Institute is explicitly opposed to Catholic Social Doctrine, which this site defends.
at 10:30 AM
BTW, I find it very sad to still find people defending Austrian capitalism, and yet don’t realize the paradox of defending McDonald’s, as Mr. Jeffrey Tucker has done, even though the success of McDonald’s was through government funding!
at 10:36 AM
+AMDG
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@RogerP: Whenever someone says that something about economics is “certain,” it’s time to hold your nose with one hand and your wallet with the other. Economics is a study of human choices; *nothing* is certain about it, much less “absolutely certain,” because human choices are governed not by absolute natural laws but by free wills with varying priorities.
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What your argument fails to note is that those companies which “temporarily experience the benefits of being the choice vendor to the market” tend to stick around for an awfully long time, and they do this because this “temporary” position makes them not only economically, but *politically* powerful. So even assuming that the equations tossed about by modern Austrian economists regarding monopolies are correct—and I’ve seen them, I’m less than convinced—it’s only half the story. It ignores the fact that powerful economic actors become powerful political actors, and are able to influence the economy in a political way accordingly. That’s why a state-free capitalism, or even the more moderate Austrian position of a state which forbids nothing but “fraud, theft, and coercion” (all of which are *very* loosely defined), is a fantasy.
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Given how fundamentally divided the field of economics is, and has been since it was first considered separately from politics (of which it is rightly a part), Austrian expressions of certainty about their positions really must be taken with a very large truckload of salt. *They* might be certain about them; economic science isn’t, because economic science has much more philosophy than science in it. It will be correct only insofar as its first principles are correct. And since the Austrians get their first principles wrong, about the nature of society and the state, their conclusions are wrong, as well.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 11:08 AM
One of the failures with distributism is that it fails to allow the market to qualify value, added valuations, and promotes the concept of a ‘total net value’ of work, labor, society, capital. In practice all valuations are simply relative values to an alternative. There is no ‘productive property’ as is commonly classified – so then what is the un-productive property? How do we know this to be so? Why is it failing to be productive? What if my land is productive to my family? What if failing to brush my teeth is productive to my hands and not my face? Silly questions, I know, however there is no moral code of the Church which does not allow a most active portion of subsidiarity to express itself in complete freedom through the most seemingly insignificant choices of the individual, family, company, and well capitalized large corporation. Interestingly, the proposal of the above article is that the concentration of stores of value such as dollars or gold by a small percentage of a society is somehow of less value to a society than if it were otherwise ‘distributed’. For matters of trade and economic development, it is actually the capacity to accumulate capital which offers all of society the greatest return in terms of both welfare and innovation. The only way this cannot be the case is if the capital is somehow not freely traded.
at 11:18 AM
“It ignores the fact that powerful economic actors become powerful political actors, and are able to influence the economy in a political way accordingly. That’s why a state-free capitalism, or even the more moderate Austrian position of a state which forbids nothing but “fraud, theft, and coercion” (all of which are *very* loosely defined), is a fantasy.” – Indeed, it is unlikely to be realized, however distributism is itself imbedded with a the notion of non-economic organizations which promise to simply supplant the state, with the so-called gilds – groups much like a trade union which principally aim to limit competition to the pricing schedule of the product or service rendered. From the perspective the participant in the guild, this sounds very fine indeed, but how about from the participant who is purchasing from this mini-cartel? How will they enjoy the assumably higher pricing. Further, how is this policed? What if a member of the guild leaves the guild by way of competing with lower pricing? Will the holy gild ‘un-license’ his skill set? – or Perhaps publicly admonish him? Ask the state to arrest his activities?
at 11:20 AM
All said, what happens to fail is the distributist system in practice. However, *within* capitalism – the most natural resting state of free trade – distributism has the potential to exist – not one negating the other so long as capitalism is allowed to flower.
Pax Tecum!
at 1:51 PM
Is there a reason the sentences are numbered like that? It makes it hard to read, it’s distracting.
at 3:18 PM
“All said, what happens to fail is the distributist system in practice.”
And you’re sure of this, how? How sad that many people equate Distributism with State intervention, when it is not the case at all, only when it is necessary. There are a whole lot of groups in between the individual and the State, whereas in capitalism it is only the State and big business, no one in between (except a few local businesses).
at 3:21 PM
BTW, how funny how Austrian economists are so confident Distributism is a failure, and yet Mondragon, a Spanish company, is flourishing, using Distributist principles.
at 3:40 PM
RogerP, the assumption in your argument is that the natural state of humanity is a state of self-interested individuals and that capitalism is the best system because it accounts for this. As much as Thomas Hobbs might have been a critic of his time, his thesis is based on a small number of people acting badly and not the bulk of people who behaved appropriately. It would be the same today if we were to catagorise the average Englishman as someone who would loot and steal without adequate law enforcement watching them.
As was already noted as early as Aristotle man is inherently political and the family is the natural unit of society, not the individual. It is more natural for people to work towards the collective interest of their family than their own self interest. Families within the same extended family is the next natural grouping, which Aristotle categorises as the beginning of villages, and so on and so forth.
Distributism takes this Aristotilean view of man, rather than the Hobbsean view you and the Acton Institute presume. The Church also takes this more Aristotilean view of man, as the various social encyclicals should confirm for you. The question of supporting Distributism or Capitalism, therefore, depends on whether you are an Aristotilean or an Hobbsean.
at 4:26 PM
“More specifically, distributive justice is that virtue “according to which a ruler or steward gives to each one according to his own worth.”29 ”
LOL! It’s a tough job, but someones gotta do it! I’ll take a block of midtown Manhattan, someone else can have that rocky W.Va. hillside! Exactly HOW is this scheme different from the state looting some and dispensing property to their friends that we see happening now? I can forgive Chesterton and Belloc for this nonsense. They lived in a time dominated by Progressives and Fabians. Socialism was full of “promise”. But history has shown that it is not economically viable. Handing property on basis of ruler deemed “fairness” hasn’t worked so far, I’m assuming Mr Goodman knows where these perfect rulers free of greed and sin can be found. Mr Goodman needs to look up the meaning of the term “capitalism” (PRIVATE ownership of the means of economic production and distribution, rather than state owned) and realize that liberty is the best way to create wealth which will lift all boats. There is no free lunch, the poor will always be with us. I am personally acquainted with 2 individuals who had jobs and have simply decided that they do not want to get up and go to work so they stopped. They are going to go for mental disability $.
at 5:17 PM
Sorry, IK, but that is not what we call capitalism. Capitalism has always been most productive property concentrated in the hands of a few. Calling Belloc and Chesterton “socialists” shows you to be unfortunately ignorant about what Distributism really is.
at 5:18 PM
How many times must this be repeated? Distributism doesn’t equal SOCIALISM!
at 5:59 PM
RogerP; Marginalism is, by its subjective nature, a speculative, rational and not empirical doctrine. However neoclassical economics has tried to make a complete economic system out of it and has failed miserably thanks to the Cambridge Capital controversy, multi-equilbria, a myriad of absurd assumptions and dodgy uses of mathematical modeling. I don’t think the Austrians even try and build a complete, self-contained system in the same way, but they eschew empirical evidence anyway, so it is a moot point. It is therefore hard to see how marginalism empirically debunks distributism.
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The rest of your criticisms are just ‘economics-speak’, they mean little and it hard to see how anyone could think they were much of a criticism of distributism. Distributism is not communism, it is not proposing something counterintuitive, like everyone will earn the same, and therefore it is quite easy to see how it could work in practice. That is without the myriad of evidence. It is also amazing you seem to think that actually existing capitalism is not, and has not always been, replete, even dependent, on massive, increasing state intervention. Kevin Carson’s work on this subject is excellent. As this is undoubtedly true, it means your theoretical, ‘free market’ capitalism, cannot claim the fruits of actually existing capitalism as its own(even if we momentarily put aside discussions on consumerism, community – where actually existing capitalism comes out very badly if you are a traditional Christian or social and cultural conservative – and all but narrowly ‘economic’ concerns.).
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One thing I will say to a general audience is that even narrowly ‘economic’ based distributism would necessarily greatly reduce the economic domination by the globalised economy on a national economy and also disrupt the constant, very rapid, succession of consumer goods and services we have in a corporate-capitalist economy. This is one reason I was not much impressed by the ‘occupy Wall Street’ protesters. It seemed to me like most would be as enthusiastic to keep the ever flowing stream of Ipads and other electromagentic gadgets, trash from Hollywood (and wherever what passes for music today comes from) and cheap consumer goods from the third world going as most are in our society. They just wanted the middle class to be able to more easily afford a larger percentage. Most people will be able to sense, if only vaguely, that distributism will break this cycle by its very nature. It is not within what is seen as the inevitable, by many, progress of the globalised, corporate economy to which many can’t even imagine serious alternatives. It is therefore better we make the most of it and always have our full, anti-corporatist, anti-consumerist, anti-technocrat, anti-globalist vision as at least the basic canvas for our expositions and persuasions.
at 11:19 PM
IK, if that’s what you think distributism is, then you’ve completely misunderstood distributism. It is a system that prioritises local business and government above the state. It is *not* a system of state welfare or state redistribution of property.
at 12:08 PM
Actually Stephen IK quoted from the article. I question the same comment. If the statement: “More specifically, distributive justice is that virtue ‘according to which a ruler or steward gives to each one according to his own worth’” is true, then who decides and how does the more successful & productive person get rewarded “according to his own worth”?
at 12:19 PM
+AMDG
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In point of fact, IK happened to take a quotation from Aristotle out of the article. His interpretation of it is strict to the point of silliness; it makes me wonder if he’s not interpreting it that way just so he can insert his idea of cleverness into his response. Like so:
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“LOL! It’s a tough job, but someones gotta do it! I’ll take a block of midtown Manhattan, someone else can have that rocky W.Va. hillside! Exactly HOW is this scheme different from the state looting some and dispensing property to their friends that we see happening now?”
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I can only respond to this in two ways:
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1.) What scheme? I haven’t proposed any scheme at all here; I’ve only enunciated certain principles that I believe ought to go into creating a scheme. You’re leaping all over something that isn’t even there.
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2.) That quotation does not imply, nor has anyone suggested, that there’s some guy sitting in an office somewhere with a list of names deciding who gets what. I know this chimerical vision that nobody here has ever advocated allows people to throw silly comments around—the ones they’ve apparently been saving up since Gorbachev fell from power—but it’s just not what’s there. *Sometimes* a ruler will be dispensing property directly; e.g., when Congress determines that this or that soldier deserves the CMH. Most of the time, though, a ruler is going to be setting up policies that will help promote a just distribution of productive property, not seizing property and dividing it up for people.
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How is that different from the state taking everything and passing it out to whomever it please? Well, it’s mostly different in that it has almost nothing in common with it. Distributism’s purpose is to ensure families economic stability by ensuring the just distribution of productive property; this straw man you’ve set up in order to knock it down with what you apparently regard as clever comments is clearly something else. The idea is to make families *less* dependent upon corporations and the state, not *more*. Furthermore, distributism has always been based on *nonviolent* means of distribution.
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There are lots of legitimate discussion points about distributism; but this just isn’t one of them.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 2:08 PM
So let’s pretend shall we that we are in the mythological realm where the good king always distributes with the best of intentions rewarding the good steward and punishing the wicked and lazy steward. How prey tell will that good king determine what and when we can take from the lazy steward and give it to the good steward? Oh and who gets to be king and should we simply assume that we live in an empire or will the government somehow take the will of the people into this?
Honestly there needs to be a form of government that can support this. I agree with the idea and intent but practically speaking who makes the decisions and how do they make them? Is it based in the legislature? Do we assume we retain a legislature? If we haven’t reached that point in the discussions then fine. We can hypothetically play the game and say it would be wonderful if we could move property back from the hands of a few to the many; but to do that requires a process. Unless it is by armed revolt followed by the raiding of property and redistribution by some yet unnamed source, I don’t see this as a more moral option than communism. I’d like to REALLY! But how do we get past the moral question of taking property from others and redistributing it? Can we just make a decision as a country to all give it a try and just buy local?
at 3:40 PM
Tim; there are numerous options like the land value tax, progressive taxation, land reforms, monetary reforms and so forth, which do not require simple confiscation or any panel to constantly distribute property to those who they feel deserve it.
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And btw, it is not that important, but traditional Christianity was monarchist(whether in the older, Platonic formulation or the Aristotelian.), for good reason, so mocking Kings and talking about the will of the people(rather than the will of God.) as the obvious basis of good government is a bit misplaced.
at 5:59 AM
+AMDG
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Tim: *There is no property confiscation board*. There isn’t some guy in an office with a list of property owners deciding who has too much, who has too little, and whose will go to whom. That’s just not how it works. That’s not something anybody has proposed and it’s not something that anybody supports.
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What *does* happen is that rather than supporting policies which allow the already rich to leverage their wealth in every way possible, thus ensuring that they will continue to get richer and that the poor will have more and more trouble improving their lot, the state makes it a conscious policy to improve the lot of the *poor*, without prejudice to the already rich. It sets up policies which will encourage the poor to become wealthy on their own; that is, to encourage them to become the owners of productive property. There are lots of ways to do this; but you should carefully note that guys with Uzis running around stealing the silver out of rich people’s china cabinets is *not* one of them.
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“Will of the people”? Of course it’s taken into account. Isn’t the will of the people that the people be more economically secure? As John Adams said, the real revolution was completed long before 1775, and it was fought in the hearts and minds of the American people. (Yes, he’s the one who came up with the “war for their hearts and minds” thing.) Distributism must be a popular movement precisely because it stands to benefit the populace—unlike capitalism and socialism, which always stand only to benefit the rich.
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The decisions will be made by the lawfully constituted authority of the area, whether that be a king, or an assembly, or whatever. Distributism isn’t concerned with specific political systems. Distributism does, however, suggest that such decisions are best made at as local a level as possible.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 11:33 AM
Unless I’m reading these comments wrong – I’ve not found ONE person who suggests that when times are tough FALL TO YOUR KNEES AND PRAY! “”Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.” (Mt. 7:7). I’ve been working since I was 14. When hard luck came around, I PRAYED and GOD, as He always does – DELIVERS! Maybe Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party, and everyone else for that matter should simply hold prayer rallies. (As Chesterton said, “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found difficult and not tried.”) And yes, I’m aware he was a Distributist…
Vivat Jesus
at 1:11 PM
No one here is denying prayer, BUT it must be with good works!
at 1:12 PM
BTW, Chesterton’s quote does not imply mere prayer, but the whole thing: a Christian social order.
at 7:58 PM
@ c matt:
You said,”I don’t understand the hatred spewed at distributism by capitalists. If anything, distributism seems more “capitalist”….”
Absolutely. Distributism, from what I understand, means a just proportionate system of economics.
If you watch “A Man for All Seasons” with Paul Scofield, Richard (the man who works with Oliver Cromwell later) in the first scene of the movie begins to quote Aristotle. He is trying to impress himself upon the aristocratic class of society (whom Sir Thomas More was familiar with and was frequenting in his home, as a result of his position) as well as (speaking of Richard) wanting the things of the arisocratic class. When Sir Thomas is asked by the Duke of Norfolk why the man (Richard) is there and what he’s looking for, Sir Thomas reveals the man (Richard) is looking for work in the office of state. The Duke asks Sir Thomas what he thinks. Sir Thomas said he wouldn’t refer him. Later, Richard is seen working for Oliver Cromwell (another place of state under the King) to push Sir Thomas to sign the decree of King Henry to have power as head of Church, or Sir Thomas would be found in an act of treason (which Richard assists Cromwell to put Sir Thomas into trial.)
The same goes for today’s society. You have thieves who work to steal property and crooks to injure or take away life. The business of security, which is to protect one’s property and life, is deprived or prone to as much as Richard’s profession. Such business interests are generally motivated to live the life of the aristocratic elite. They want to dine and sup with them and frequent their places of talk. Their interests are in to succeeding at making money on the crook. If the crook wasn’t there, there wouldn’t be money to be made.
Likewise with “A Man for All Seasons”, Richard see’s the opportunity to work with the likes of Cromwell (a crooked man) to protect the interests and power of King Henry (thereby leading to depriving Sir Thomas More. By doing so, it is an opportunity for the place of aristocracy and the social elite.)
Contrary to Richard’s life and the current mandate for today’s economics, distributism is a system aimed at a much more just purpose whereby people aren’t being deprived of their right to own property. Or, more so, aimed at what Chesterton said of Mr. Jones and his homelessness caused by Hudge and Gudge, a man ought to live in (and own) the house (home) he likes (not the slums of Hudge and the eco-hives of Gudge.)
Distributism is for the rich to rightfully (i.e. lawfully and justly) own property with the same respect of ownership granted to all people (whether rich, poor, or somewhere in between.) In essence, the distributist view is where (and ought) the proper role of government should be, which is in governing justly.
at 9:35 AM
Exactly. Who is distributing? Who guarantees that someone doesn’t get to much? If i earn to much does someone steal it from me? There is a lot of critism against capitalism and socialism but i cant see how distributism works i reality. It seems that you are just dreaming and living in a world romantic fiction/ a swede
at 9:45 AM
+AMDG
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It has nothing to do with having too much; in a distributist society there would still be disparity of wealth, possibly great. Distributism is not concerned with too much property, but with too much *productive* property; and it has nothing to do with absolute quantity of productive property, but with the *concentration* of productive property.
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“Who is distributing?” Nobody; as I’ve said repeatedly thus far, there’s nobody gathering up everybody’s stuff and then passing it out again the way he sees fit. Distributism is not confiscatory and it’s not violent; it’s a matter of the state adopting policies which will encourage the lesser concentration, rather than the greater concentration, of productive property, such that the normal condition of a citizen of that state is that of an *owner*, rather than that of a non-owning worker.
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“It seems that you are just dreaming and living in a world romantic fiction” As opposed to the socialist or capitalist paradise that exists in reality right now? The best capitalists can point to is a state-supported oligarchy; the best socialists can point to is the welfare state. (Notice how, as distributism has always predicted, the two increasingly look the same?) Distributism, on the other hand, can—and repeatedly has—pointed to real-world examples of its philosophy working, and working well. Read around this site; look for articles about guilds, Mondragon, Emilia-Romagna, and things of that nature.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 1:25 PM
Sadly, it seems many people just don’t want to study deeply into these things; all they listen to is propaganda.
at 2:14 PM
If one is obligated, then one is compelled. If one is compelled, then one has no choice but to act for another. If one has no choice and must act for another, then one is a slave to another. If one must obey, then one must do what one is told. If one uses faith, then one is not using reason. Indeed, faith is a belief in that which one cannot prove to be true through reason and logic (non-contradictory-identification).
If one is “obligated” to “obey” by “Faith”, then one is a “slave” to another out of “ignorance”.
Happy faith.
at 2:19 PM
+AMDG
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One is not a slave to someone merely because one is obligated to obey him or act in his behalf. Otherwise, I would be a slave to my father, and also to my son.
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Also, at least in the Catholic tradition, faith is not a belief that cannot be proven to be true through reason or logic. Faith is instead the belief in that which one has not proven true by reason on the authority of the one who proposes it to one. So, e.g., I believe by faith that my great-grandfather’s name was Charles; I have no first-hand knowledge of it, but I have been told so by my grandfather, on whose authority I believe it. I believe in Catholicism because the Church tells me it is true; and the Church can rationally support her authority to tell me that such things are true. Faith, thus understood, is a perfectly rational thing.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 2:30 PM
@ Donald Goodman
Would I be fairly, as best as I can, summarizing a distirbutist view as a just system of capital? The point, would be, is to have laws to which respect is given to each person in society being rich, poor, or somewhere in between. The laws are to see to the just distribution (i.e. exchange of goods and services; especially productive property) of property. In other words, economics must be lawfully, justly, and properly governed by incentives with regard to respect to the dignity of each person.
at 2:33 PM
Your circumlocutions and evasions aside. Where is the rational support?
Note:
P1. Existence Exists. That is, every existent exists in existence.
P2. Non-existence does not exist. That is, that which does not exist, does not exist.
P3. What makes a god a god is that it created existence.
P4. If something created existence, then it cannot exist because an existent cannot exist outside of existence.
P5. If it existed, then it existed in existence and cannot have created existence.
P6. The theory of a god is a contradiction to not only the existence of itself, but also to existence and therefore this theory is false.
Conclusion: Therefore, rationality and logic is not only not used to assert the existence of god. Further, rationality and logic must be subverted, denied, or evaded in order to asser the existence of a god.
In the place of rationality and logic, one must insert “faith”.
Enjoy slavery to another (in this case the catholic church) out of ignorance. But please, stop trying to convince others to become slaves also in order to justify your denial of the efficacy of your mind.
at 2:35 PM
Apologies for the misspelling and incorrect sentence structure.
at 3:05 PM
+AMDG
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@D Price: Wow. Where to begin.
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I’m reluctant to even start, given that this isn’t a forum to debate the existence of God, but just a bit:
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“P1. Existence Exists. That is, every existent exists in existence.”
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This sentence is meaningless. Existing things don’t exist “in existence,” as though existence were some substrate in which all existing things subsist. I honestly can’t even figure out what you’re trying to say here.
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“P2. Non-existence does not exist. That is, that which does not exist, does not exist.”
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Yes; but this is a tautology, totally unhelpful to the discussion. It’s like saying that “black is black” or “all helpful people are helpful.”
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“P3. What makes a god a god is that it created existence.”
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No; what makes God God is His substantial form; and His substantial form is identical with His being. He Himself *is* existence; all things which exist receive their being from Him. While for us, our being and our substantial forms are different, for God they are the same. God *is* being; that is why He told Moses, “I am Who am.” That is, I am He Who exists.
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“P4. If something created existence, then it cannot exist because an existent cannot exist outside of existence.
P5. If it existed, then it existed in existence and cannot have created existence.”
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Again, this assumes that there’s some substrate of existence out there like the luminiferous ether, and all things which exist are sitting in it, like fish in water. But existence is an act, not a place or a thing. I think you’ll find that your “existence” substrate is about as real as the luminiferous ether is.
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“Conclusion: Therefore, rationality and logic is not only not used to assert the existence of god. Further, rationality and logic must be subverted, denied, or evaded in order to asser the existence of a god.”
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If we assume that your “metaphysics” enunciated above are true, then maybe so; but I don’t, because it’s not rationally tenable. Metaphysics is actually a very complex subject that’s been developed over thousands of years of thought from the most brilliant minds in history, and it can’t be summarized in six one-sentence bullet-points. If you’re interested in learning something about metaphysics, by all means do so; but please recognize the following: 1.) it will take you years of study to gain proficiency in the topic; 3.) you will learn from your study, rather than having your viewpoints simply confirmed by it.
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In any case, I’ll no further hijack an economics and political forum with bumper-sticker metaphysics summaries. Please feel free to contact me elsewhere if you’d like to discuss it further.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 3:34 PM
3 things.
1st, great site. I studied history and economics in college and am just now–almost 20 years later!–learning about distributism, i.e., I didn’t hear a word about it . . . odd–isn’t it? Perhaps not.
2nd, the biggest hurdle to “converting” people to distributism (though they may already be distributists and don’t even know it) is what we should now call “the Nathan effect.” Or simply “TNE” for short. TNE defined: “Deep-seated beliefs about economic models are difficult to extract and replaced with a more suitable alternative for no other reason than they are deep-seated beliefs about economic models.” Perhaps a disclaimer needs to be added before any discussion on the issue of capitalism for the benefit of would-be converts: “We are not anti-Capitalists. We are not Leftists. We are not in-the-closet Communists. We are not all Democrats. We believe in private property.” And so on. Perhaps those who suffer from TNE will then read on.
3rd, what we are witnessing is some bit of truth to the theory that at some point capitalism can self-destroy itself because you can’t keep on shifting income from labor (wages) to capital (profit) without not having an excess capacity and a lack of aggregate demand. I’ve always disagreed with this theory when applied to advanced free markets (like in America and Europe) because I’ve always believed that capital would organically shift back to labor, which creates more capital, which creates more labor, and so on.
Today it is not working. Why? Labor is shifting to capital and trillions of capital (concentrated in the hands of a few) is sitting idly in cash.
Love your site and will make it a daily read!
at 3:52 PM
So is productive property just land?
at 3:56 PM
Productive property is both land and capital.
at 4:02 PM
Is Distributism saying that distributive justice means that the sovereign should give me some portion of land as I am worth? If so, who is the sovereign? How does he determine the relative worth of different parcels of land? How does he determine what I am worth? Also, what if someone is determined to be worth more than me? Does that person get my land if there is no claimed land available? Finally, what if I don’t want the land I’m worth? Can I sell it to someone else even if that person already has his worth of land already?
at 4:37 PM
No. Distributive justice is saying that those resources that are held in common should be shared fairly according to desert and need. For example, a piece of land that is owned by the public shouldn’t be used for the benefit of a plutocrat while neglecting everyone else.
A more concrete example, it is just for public money to be spent building a road to service a large, privately-owned shopping mall, while at the same time no public money is spent to assist all the small community-based businesses?
at 5:58 PM
Actually faith is also a precognition of what is true. The Aristotelian-Thomistic perspective doesn’t highlight this as centrally as the older, Platonic-Patristic perspective, but faith, partially at least, is the non-discursive recognition of truths already imprinted on the soul. Faith is not necessarily the blind faith of Luther and Protestantism, though a measure of that sort of faith is not automatically an evil. What D Price seems to be saying is that if Christians were to posit a complete ontological discontinuity, on all levels, between God and the universe, and the universe was said to exist, then it wouldn’t make sense to say that God exists. This may be the naive, popular view of God and the universe today, it may even be the case that Christianity(particularly Western Christianity.) sometimes hasn’t dealt with this problem as clearly as it should have, but it is certainly not the case that is the general view of Christians. Anyway, exactly why he’d bring it up in this context I’m not sure. To be a slave to God is in a sense to be free, because in God is the only true freedom.
at 8:10 PM
I’m going to pine in on the point of where distributism is being aimed to become a failure.
Distributism is being rightly argued from a capitalistic standpoint as to what appears to be an obvious flaw. I wouldn’t say the flaw is in distributism itself. But, I would say the flaw is how distributism is being aimed. Precisely, or imprecisely, the aim follows the arm of the person who is doing the aiming. The man stood on the tower of babel and aimed his arrow at God in the clouds. Saul aimed the rock at St. Stephen’s head and found Christ suffered. Distibutism is being wrongly aimed because of the ailment that has fallen upon the family (i.e. the institution of the home). Saul and the Pharisees were ailing (not seeing they took down the house of the Lord and never built it backup in 3 days as He said He would) and aimed to root out heretics except itself (the homeless Pharsiee; the homeless of Mr. Jones; the homeless family.)
Christ said, “Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecutest me?” And, Saul asked, being knocked off his horse, “Who are you Lord? (and the madness and non-sense of the Pharisee was knocked out of his head.)” The ailing institution of the family can no more hold to nor aim for distributism as it can never hold to anything at all (they cannot own or hold onto property cause they have no ability to hold on to anything; the family has no home and has become severed as well as homeless.) A man with a severed arm (or a hand) cannot even lift his own children or anything to call his, since he has no arm or a very disintegrated one (Saul cannot aim at or lift a rock at or get rid of, precisely or imprecisely, any heresies because he adhears to a homeless one; the Pharisee’s arm has dismantled the house of God, has becomme injured and terribly severed, and is aimed at casting out the Rock that was rejected; the instiution of the home falls apart because the foundation has been removed.) And likewise, the ailing institution of the home can no more hold to or aim at a just system since it has never been mended and has been severed (i.e. fallen apart, broken, and dismantled.)
at 8:15 PM
+AMDG
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Wessexman, what you say is true of the theological virtue of faith; and the Thomistic tradition acknowledged it as much as the Platonists did. I’m merely describing the natural virtue of faith to refute the idea that somehow faith and reason are antithetical, when in reality faith is perfectly rational.
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Hugh: as I’ve said repeatedly here, distributism does not involve confiscation of property. It *does* involve setting up society such that ownership by the many is favored by our economic and political system as well as by our culture.
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Mr. Peterson: what you say is true, but distributism is not limited to the commons. It promotes the widespread distribution of *private* productive property. It’s sad that some people can’t distinguish promotion and forcible confiscation, but that’s no reason to confine distributism to the commons.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 8:40 PM
Donald; when I said ‘Actually faith is also a precognition of what is true.’ and so on I was addressing myself to D Price. I wasn’t criticising or trying to amend what you wrote. I probably should have been clearer to whom I was directing my comment. I was just pointing out to D Price, who like so many of the irreligious today seems to have got his view of what Christians believe from radical Protestantism(if he got it from Christians at all rather than naive, popular stereotypes.) alone, that faith was traditionally conceived as something more than he, like so many, seem to appreciate.
at 3:04 AM
I am still confused. What i like about capitalism is that is fair. Everybody is equal by law everything else seems arbitrary.
“It’s a matter of the state adopting policies which will encourage the lesser concentration”
How? what policies? That is my question, how does it work?
at 4:09 AM
Samuel, a capitalist system is not fair. People that have aggregates of property have a distinct economic advantage over people that have no productive property. A person with no property must rely on whatever market value they can sell their labour at for sustenance, while a person with an excess of productive property can rent it and make no contribution to the labour pool, and still make excess profit on top of what they need for sustenance.
For an example of a state policy that discourages property aggregation, see this extract from Hilaire Belloc on a differential tax: http://distributistreview.com/mag/2011/07/the-differential-tax/
at 12:38 PM
@GK Student
I suspect you refer to Thomas Cromwell rather than Oliver, whose part in English history was played a century after T’s death.
at 2:46 AM
Well, life is unfair. We are all born with different talents and amount of money. That is the world God created. But we have an responsibilty to manage our talent, to do the best of our situation. (we also have respensibilty to the weak and the poor). In a capitalistic you have a oppertunity to really do that. How many poor swedes and other europeans came to america with absolutly nothing more than their god-given talents in their hands and created a better life thanks to the fairness of capitalism?
at 8:06 AM
Samuel, with all fairness, immigration in the 19th/20th century wasn’t limited to the United States or capitalist countries. That we have different talents is certain, and that’s the point: Capitalism fails to provide a system which truly allows us to maximize on our talents. Instead, we become wage slaves by a system that limits market entry because of scale, money, and lobbying power. This isn’t simply a weakness or imperfection of this social system, but an organic result of the nature of capitalism — just as the effects of socialism are ubiquitous, so are the consequences of capitalism.
at 8:23 AM
Samuel Karlsson and a few of us have pointed out some things that seem to be getting the quick brush-off. How does productive capital and property move from the hands of the few to the hands of the many? If there is no redistribution (by force or otherwise) how do you incent or motivate the change?
Capitalism allows for those who are industrious, entrepreneurial, or create capital to earn substantially more than those who do/risk little. God creates men equal in dignity but not in gifts. To one man He give ten coins but to another only one. The one who has ten earns ten more, while the man with only one does nothing with it. From the one who does nothing He takes what he has and gives to the one who has ten.
It seems to me that the disparity is not in the fact that the rich have greater opportunity to become very rich but in the fact that those without become lazy or horde what they’ve been given. In our economy this presupposes that those with great capital will always invest it. Thereby making ten more from the ten they have. While those who horde their wealth the man who buried his one coin are doing a grave disservice to God. If the capital of the few is invested, it is brought into the economy where it creates more wealth providing jobs and more opportunity.
The problem with capitalism is that fear stifles consumer spending, which stifles production and investing, which leads to contraction, which leads to layoffs, which leads to more fear. We need bold capitalists or we need to find a way to motivate those with excess capital to get back to investing and producing. Two things motivate: inspiration and desperation. If the government were to set a limit on cash holdings based on percentage of net worth (not taxing or threatening to take property but regulating and investing on behalf of those who fail to do so on their own) perhaps we could move property back into the hands of all the people without a violent revolution/redistribution.
at 9:23 AM
Tim, we don’t see what you say happening, do we? American jobs are being taken away and given to foreign workers. A lot more people are laid off or unemployed. Capitalism is based on Protestant/Enlightenment ethics, which only looks at the so-called “economic man,” which is an illusion. Ultimately, the theory says that somehow greed and self-interest helps everyone, while the results show otherwise.
The Middle Ages have shown how a Distributist economy can work; it is through inculcation of the Catholic spirit. No Distributist has ever urged a violent redistribution of productive property, although the State may need to intervene, giving due compensation to the parties involved, of course.
And BTW, you’re totally misusing the parable of the talents, to defend usury, WHICH IS WRONG in Catholic doctrine.
at 10:00 AM
Paul you are completely missing my point and my interpretation of the parable of the talents. My point in the parable is that we need to use our talents to better society rather than horde them for ourselves. I think that is accurate.
What you say we don’t see happening is occurring for complex reasons and not simply greed (though I fully agree that greed is a vice that does a disservice to society).
Capital moves offshore due to cost of production disparity. Given equal conditions capital will reside locally. Unfortunately high local taxes drive costs up while competitive pressure (note not just greed) drives activity intended to reduce costs and maintain/grow profits. Growing profits is NOT an evil activity. It is doing precisely what it should, encouraging investing in productive activities and diverting it from wasteful ones.
I don’t doubt that the Distributist economy can work on a small scale with motivated and similarly yoked parties. I think it lacks the capacity to take to a large scale simply because it seems to ignore the greed component found in humanity (especially in the leadership of countries and their economies). Our founding fathers thought they had worked out a pretty good system to ensure we had limited government and maximum freedoms but that has been destroyed by years of chipping away at the foundations and social morality.
I really want to see how this is really going to work in the real world on a large scale and how it can be sustainable in light of human failure. I think the first premise must hold true. If mankind does not acknowledge God’s supremacy (or at least the definitive existence of the greater good) and the foundational premise of moral truths, we will not succeed in sustaining the Distributist economy. Everything not built on a solid foundation ultimately fails.
at 10:14 AM
+AMDG
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“I think it lacks the capacity to take to a large scale simply because it seems to ignore the greed component found in humanity.”
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Ironic accusation, that, given that capitalism actively promotes greed as the source of industriousness and profitable behavior. It goes back to Mandeville and his “Fable of the Bees,” with its remarkably evil quotable “Private vice, public virtue,” but it’s a constant theme throughout capitalistic thinking. The desire for money is the profit motive; the more desire for profit, the more work toward that profit, the better the profit, the better the company does, the more wealth it spreads throughout society, the wealthier the society. That’s capitalism’s theory of itself in a nutshell.
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Distributism seeks to limit human greed precisely because it *does* recognize that greed is pervasive throughout the human experience. It does so by promoting the widespread distribution of productive property, because unrestrained greed will result in its great concentration, and then that greed will control a great portion of the wealth of a society and by extension the society itself.
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“Samuel Karlsson and a few of us have pointed out some things that seem to be getting the quick brush-off. How does productive capital and property move from the hands of the few to the hands of the many? If there is no redistribution (by force or otherwise) how do you incent or motivate the change?”
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Nobody’s giving it short shrift; it’s just well beyond the scope of this little article, and there’s also no single answer to the question. What works well in one place may be incredibly destructive in another; local conditions must be considered very carefully. Distributing productive property can’t work the same in Rome, Italy as it does in New York, New York; indeed, it can’t work the same in Rome, New York as it does in New York, New York.
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Good examples of what may work in some places are as follows:
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1.) Stop giving enormous tax breaks to large companies. Wal-marts and Honda factories set up in those places which are least unionized and which offer them the largest tax breaks. Why are we offering tax breaks to companies that are already fantastically wealthy? Instead, tax breaks should be offered to small, local businesses who are start small, local productive facilities.
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2.) Incentivize smaller concentrations of productive property by increased taxation on large concentrations. Take a city with one large shoe factory that produces most of the shoes for ten million people; there are other shoe factories, but they are small and produce for a total of a million people or so. They have trouble getting into the significant retail chains because scales are rewarded by those chains; the large factory is also cutting its prices (subsidized by its factories in other cities) in order to push out the smaller factories. Increase the taxes on the huge factory; rather, increase the taxes on its productive capacity above a certain limit, determined according to the normal political process.
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3.) Place import tariffs on goods that are producible locally. (E.g., don’t put tariffs on pineapples in Alaska; but by all means put them on caribou meat.) This will level out the disparity in productive costs caused by low labor standards, forced deunionization, and other methods countries use to attract foreign businesses.
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4.) Require a real, living wage (not the sham of such that is our current minimum wage). Make sure that it is required for *all* workers, including illegal immigrants. This will enable thrifty workers to support their families *and* save their own funds, allowing them the possibility to branch out, purchase or build productive property of their own, and thus become owners rather than non-owning workers.
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The list of possible measures is as infinite and varied as the creativity and conditions of mankind. There are other articles dealing with specific ideas and proposals; this article is just talking about the basics of distributist philosophy.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 10:50 AM
So in essence you have no answer. That’s okay but you should just say so.
The fact is that greed is NOT the central component of capitalism but it has become a central component of our society’s use of capitalism. Face it, humanity has a fallen nature that cannot be escaped in this lifetime. Capitalism’s central component should be the desire to utilize one’s skills and expertise to achieve “success” or the satisfaction of the “pursuit of happiness”. The ultimate goal of freedom is to achieve that goal. For the moral man it is bettering himself and society. For the immoral man it is fulfilling his personal satisfaction at the expense of others.
Essentially the definition of success changes from individual to individual. For some making $30k/year having a home and a family, time to go fishing, golfing, or sitting in a hammock is their goal. That is a GREAT goal and there is nothing wrong with it. For others building something great and lasting is their goal. They build up companies and find ways to maximize the productivity of factories, etc. Again, great goal! For others the answer to the question “how much do you want to achieve” is “great things that benefit mankind”. That is a wonderful goal! Now sometimes the question changes to “how much do you want to own?” Unfortunately the answer sometimes changes to “how much is there?” This is greed and it disregards others in its desire for personal gain. Greed is counterproductive to capitalism, makes immoral choices regarding the rights of workers or the proper use of resources.
To the extent that Distributive economic motives avoid greed they are good. My point is it does NOT do away with greed. It simply shifts it to other places. Whoever makes the rules has the power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I really want to support the Distributist economic view, but frankly I don’t see it changing human nature. I simply see it as yet another view that has the potential to be abused by those with power. Unfortunately, so far I haven’t read anything to convince me otherwise.
at 11:53 AM
+AMDG
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Wow. Explain theory, and you complain that we give no practical examples of possible incentives; give practical examples, and you complain that we have no answers. This two-faced response makes you appear more interested in taking potshots at distributism than in honest intellectual discussion of the issues.
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“Face it, humanity has a fallen nature that cannot be escaped in this lifetime.” Yes; that’s precisely what distributism is designed to meet. As I said, it intends to limit the impact that human greed has on the economy. You telling us to “face it” is meaningless, given that I’d just explained to you that that’s precisely what we *are* facing.
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“Greed is counterproductive to capitalism, makes immoral choices regarding the rights of workers or the proper use of resources.” I agree with the latter; as for the former, your bald assertion doesn’t change centuries of capitalist thinking.
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“I really want to support the Distributist economic view, but frankly I don’t see it changing human nature.” Nor does anybody else. As I’ve pointed out, it doesn’t do away with greed, but it does make attempts to limit its effect on society. Capitalism, on the other hand, says that greed is perfectly A-OK as long as it maximizes profits.
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If you’re concerned about power being abused, you should be concerned about giant, ultra-concentrated capitalists abusing theirs; they’re very, very good at doing so.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 12:25 PM
Donald, be easy on Tim. He’ll come around. It took me quite some time (and a lot of prayer and seeking) but I have for the first time in my life taken a big step back from embracing capitalism as the only viable economic system. In fact, I now see capitalism as a failed economic system and believe capitalism will go the way of socialism.
at 12:26 PM
So . . . three things.
1) In free-market theory, viewing labor as a product, then consolidation in the labor market should be expected, resulting in Unions/Labor Guilds/”Workman Incorporated” or the like.
2) If big companies are a problem, it would be their lack of competition, not the other way around. It seems inconsistent to cite big companies as the evils of competition. But I would actually argue that the power of big companies is overstated. There may only be two firms may be selling peanut butter at Walmart, but there are dozens of companies pitching peanut butter recipes to those two firms, and there are other big companies with peanut butter recipes on the shelf, waiting for an opening in the market. The situation is much more competitive – in the positive way – than it looks on the surface, and that’s true in most places.
3) Wouldn’t the best way to spread ownership of productive assets be making it easy to buy stock?
So…. how is Distributism a distinct or advantageous theory?
at 1:31 PM
Brian, it is unrestrained competition in the economy that leads to lack of competition in the end. And your equating stock to productive property falls off the mark, IMHO; people need security, not living from paycheck to paycheck.
at 2:06 PM
Nor by living on stock only.
at 2:11 PM
Tim, your statement, “Capitalism allows for those who are industrious, entrepreneurial, or create capital to earn substantially more than those who do/risk little” should be more adequately stated, “the POSSIBILITY of earning substantially more but with an INCREASING POTENTIAL for failure.” And what about those human beings who are not naturally “industrious, entrepreneurial, etc?” Certainly industrious and entrepreneurial men have a predisposition to be industrious or entrepreneurial. (Or they fear to sink and, therefore, WILL themselves to swim.) Sadly, when you sink under the current terms of the capitalist state, more often than not a man and his family suffer the dire consequences. Is the chance of success worth the risk of failure in the current state of capitalism? I do not think so anymore.
at 2:53 PM
Paul, where exactly do you see a lack of competition? Even where there are few consumer choices, those choices have already been whittled down by competitive market pressures. It’s hard to imagine there is, in fact, a lot of demand for more choice. To continue with the peanut butter example, the existence of two shelf brands is still accompanied by 1) low prices and 2) product innovation (better believe it). In addition to the competition which occurs behind the scenes that I’ve already mentioned, the economies of scale are necessary to keep prices down. And the existence of major food companies, even those NOT making peanut butter, keeps the peanut butter market in check because they CAN enter if the leaders mess up.
You mentioned “unrestrained” competition, so it sounds like you’re referring to some kind of need for government regulation. I went to business school, and you’d be surprised to know that big businesses LOVE government regulation. Every time we talked about government regulation in classes, it was referred to as a BARRIER TO ENTRY. Never as anything else. Complex regulations make it hard for a new business to enter and compete in a market, while BIG BUSINESSES have no problem keeping up with them. So think about that.
Lastly, as Stock can give you both a portion of the profits and a voting share in the company, how is it NOT like owning productive assets? Do you really think $6 Billion people can, in any other way, each have ownership of a factory? And by the way, there are definite dangers to owning a portion of the stock in the company you work for – which, if you might remember, happened with the workers at Enron.
at 3:42 PM
Tim, et al.
I’m not sure why you’re decrying the lack of examples of how distributism can be put into practice. This site, and others, are teeming them them. Maybe you ought to do a bit more browsing through the multitudinous articles on this site before choking up the discussion further. Chances are your question has already been addressed.
at 3:44 PM
samuel karlsson;’We are all born with different talents and amount of money. That is the world God created.’
You have inadvertently stubmbled on the most important point. God created us in his image, he created us with a specific human, individal and social, nature and with dignity, aptitudes and gifts which he wishes us to puruse. Distributism is the only economic system which puts the Christian view of man at its centre; that is why it is far superior than capitalism and socialism. Capitalism came about after the decline of Christendom, its theory and practice cares little for the Christian view of man and violate it often. Distributism comes from the Fathers, capitalism came from the likes of Locke.
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Tim; firstly actually existing capitalism is not the free market fantasy of those who go on about that. It is replete and dependent on increasing state intervention and always has been. Secondly the point is not that there is inequality, but that there is a system which is not built on the Christian view of man and satisfying that, individually and collectively. Inequality would be unimportant without this and there will always be some in society.
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There are a myriad of ways of creating a distributive state. A land value tax, removal of corporate personhood, privileges and all corporate welfare and monetary reforms like Silvio Gesell’s are some that spring to mind as well as Donald’s examples. Confiscation or even a progressive income tax are not necessarily required.
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Brian DeLeonard; you have it back to front. One should start with the Christian view of man and what he requires; this means strong, healthy families, communities and the necessary place and authority for the Church and Christian morality and work that goes someway, for most people, to allowing them to apply their God-given gifts, creative, social, cultural and spiritual. As capitalism fulfills this platform very much unacceptably, then it is illegitimate. Competitition and the distributive state are not in themselves our goals, they follow on from and are a means to achieve what I have mentioned.
at 3:53 PM
- I probably should have added environmental considerations to the above post alongside the different values of distributism and actually existing capitalism.
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Why would distributism need many example anyway? It is not asking for the counterintuitive like communism. What is there in distributism that cannot be intellectually seen to be eminently possible?
at 4:16 PM
Don,
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You thought you gave practical examples, but what you gave are examples that would work equally well under capitalism. Raise taxes, eliminate tax breaks, etc. The fact is the tax breaks are simply tools used by legislators to motivate businesses to act in certain manner. Then the hypocrites complain when they do. I agree with you, let’s go ahead and remove tax breaks. Now how does that function to promote a Distributist vs. Capitalist economy?
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Increase taxes on large concentrations of productive property? So tax big corporations at a higher rate or eliminate their tax breaks, or reduce taxes for smaller businesses? (Seems a lot of folks have been proposing reducing taxes on small businesses but no one seems to listen.) I fully agree. GE should pay taxes and not get tax breaks simply because it has more opportunity to shift expenses between operating groups, etc. This works for capitalism too.
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Change the way we impose tariffs? Okay that works in capitalism too.
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Your examples may motivate the movement of property but I don’t see them as a shift from capitalism. Perhaps you are just proposing a more just regulation of capitalism (with which I would agree). We need to properly regulate business and promote the proper use of capital so that more people can participate in the capitalist market.
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Publicly held stocks are a great example of how the public can participate in the ownership of productive assets. Voting rights give opportunity for determining the direction and use of those assets. At a stockholder’s meeting any stockholder can raise an issue for a vote. As the company increases profits the stockholders values typically increase (though based on perceived future value in the marketplace) and sometimes as a distribution of profits via dividend. Employees often also benefit by stock ownership (often purchasing from treasury stock at reduced prices) and possibly via profit sharing agreements.
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.Obama loves to rail against evil corporations but he fails to understand that the large ones are owned by millions of folks (just like you and me) around the world. Our pension funds and children’s college funds are holding those shares. Tell me again who are the evil corporations?
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Perhaps I have the wrong impression of what distributism is. I am envisioning a process that moves us AWAY from using capital as a tool to motivate behavior. If as you said: “it intends to limit the impact that human greed has on the economy.” and in an earlier post, “it *does* involve setting up society such that ownership by the many is favored by our economic and political system as well as by our culture.” HOW does this shift us away from the “greed” factor?
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My point is those in power (regardless of who they are) will always be tempted to promote their particular viewpoints at the expense of others.
at 4:21 PM
Tim,
You clearly have a completely different idea of what capitalism is to the rest of us. Capitalism is about minimising government intervention. It hasn’t really existed in a strick form in any major Western nation since the Second World War. The type of system we have at the moment where such things has you have just said are theoretically possible is the Welfare State. However, while they might be possible in theory, they are very difficult to implement because in practical terms the Welfare State is ruled by a plutocracy.
at 6:48 PM
Paul, you said that the Middle Ages showed how distributism can work. What percentage of families owned productive property, does anyone know?
Viking
at 6:52 PM
Tim, you said, “Publicly held stocks are a great example of how the public can participate in the ownership of productive assets.” Participate? The truth is, large institutions (insurance companies, hedge funds, mutual funds, pension funds, etc.) hold almost 70% of all publicly traded stock in the U.S. and wield ALL of the voting and influence behind decisions made by management and the board of directors. Just take a look at the Major Holders tab on Finance Yahoo for the S&P 500: State Street, Vanguard, Wellington, BlackRock, Bank of New York Mellon, and on and on. Pretty soon that number will surpass 90% at the rate it has been going. What we have today is not even close to the concept of a cooperative economy. Let’s not kid anyone that corporation are us. That’s so . . . Mitt Romney.
at 7:32 PM
Luke, name an insurance company and then look at how its assets (i.e. stock) is held. It is in the form of funds that are purchased with the monies from employee 401k’s and insurance policies intended to protect families against the loss of loved ones, or for companies to protect against the loss of a key partner, etc. Do you think these funds are solely the property of the fund managers? On the contrary they would rather charge fees on every transaction than simply endure the risk of holding stock. Why take risk when you can profit regardless of the direction of the market?
Stephen one aspect of capitalism is minimization of government, I agree! However the point is to limit government to what provides the greatest freedom to all the people, NOT to simply eliminate government. Capitalism works best when everyone is a capitalist. That means that as many people as possible should participate in the process. That does sound similar to distributism to me, but the question of how that is done is more significant. Unless people remain free and are rewarded for their contribution to society I wonder if it could become enabling of the welfare state.
To me the easiest way to create a distributist economy would be to require corporations to provide for employee profit sharing or stock purchase plans. This is not the same as a tax because it provides a benefit to the company and its employees. At any rate I’m strongly against the entitlement mentality and the welfare state. I do think taxes are currently excessive, but there is always the need to support the common good. Benjamin Franklin said the only two sure things in life are death and taxes. We would be wise to minimize both.
at 7:34 PM
Tim; How does the proliferation of ownership of bits of paper representing property revive the family and community? How does it revive the moral and spiritual authority of the Christian faith and culture? How does it great a more Christian vision of work, consumption and our relatonships with nature? You are confusing the mere owning of paper property with the Christian ideal as represented by distributism.
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Capitalism is a loose term. If anyone who believes in private property is defined as a captalist then distributists are capitalists. The point though is that actually existing capitalism is very much opposed to distributis, just as it is very different to the fairy tales of free market theory.
at 8:03 PM
Tim, the trillion dollar insurance industry has become one of the biggest scams in the history of the world. Life insurance (premiums), health insurance (premiums), disability insurance (premiums), long-term care insurance (premiums), buy-sell agreement insurance (premiums), homeowner’s insurance (premiums), car insurance (premiums), casualty insurance (premiums), credit card protection insurance (premiums), travel insurance (premiums) and on and on. Where does God fit into our modern conception of risk?
The rest of the institutions on my list do make a living buying and selling positions in the companies they hold to make a profit. They buy the stock in private transactions at a discount (securing a profit when they later sell) and short the stock when they’re ready to start selling because their traders sit at their desks and hit the bid price all day long at a discount. They make money on the way up and they make money on the way down (and many of their trades are taxed as long-term investments at 15% because they know the loopholes, e.g., investing in stock index futures to hedge against short-term gains, etc.).
As for “do I think these funds are solely the property for the fund managers?” Simply put, yes and their super rich limited partners (High Net Worth clients and institutions and fund of funds) that invest in them.
For example, here’s how much the top 10 hedge fund managers make/year. That’s per year. And, most of their income is classified as “carried interest,” thereby getting the much favorable 15% tax rate. Not a bad living . . . but my baloney-detector says something is askew here in our advanced capitalist economy.
1.David Tepper, Appaloosa Management
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $4 billion
2. George Soros, Soros Fund Management
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $3.3 billion
3. James Simons, Renaissance Technologies
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $2.5 billion
4: John Paulson, Paulson & Company
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $2.3 billion
5: Steve Cohen, SAC Capital Advisors
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $1.4 billion
6. (tie): Carl Icahn, Icahn Capital
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $1.3 billion
6. (tie): Edward Lampert, ESL Investments
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $1.3 billion
8. (tie): Kenneth Griffin, Citadel Investment Group
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $900 million
8. (tie): John Arnold, Centaurus Advisors
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $900 million
10. Philip Falcone, Harbinger Capital Partners
Est. 2009 personal earnings: $825 million
We all talk about sacrificing for this great country of ours but I don’t hear or see much coming from the elite (except Warren Buffet). And where is the elite putting their capital? In cash.
A society built on distributism would never see such a gross imbalance of wealth.
at 8:32 PM
Luke I agree that the fund managers make too much money. What do they do to profit so handsomely? They buy and sell stock and regardless of the profit made on the transaction they receive a percentage of the sale as their fee, hardly equitable. The fact remains that stock ownership does allow for participation in the productive assets because stock ownership acts to enable those assets to produce goods, services, and thereby profits. Investing takes from what a person has earned by their hard work and distributes it to others as a voluntary process to support causes or produce profits. In this the stockholder shares in the work of the company and its employees.
As for Wessexman’s comments regarding reviving the family or community or reviving the moral authority of the Church, it doesn’t. I would love to see that happen but I’m not sure if/how Distributism does it either. A Catholic Christian revival is needed and the restoration of moral truths but how does Distributism propose to do this?
Capitalism is just a vehicle that should allow us to pursue our goals, but capitalism has been hijacked by greed. Capitalism works best when everyone participates, so I agree that everyone should have equal opportunity to pursue their goals and profit from their efforts. Currently there is gross inequity but the question is HOW do we resolve that inequity?
at 10:40 PM
Tim, if you want that question answered, you would have to peruse this site and read works of Distributists to see. And anyways, no Catholic Distributist ever thought the Distributist economic system by itself would reform society; minds also need to be reformed.
at 11:16 PM
Tim; Firstly distributism proposes to start our social reasoning in traditional Christianity(I’m Orthodox and not Roman Catholic, so you’ll often find me using this term ;).); in Scripture, in the Fathers and the traditons of the Church rather than even modernist and liberal thinkers or in non-Christian popular tendencies and views. Now it would be totally wrong to suggest political and economic reforms can revive the Christian society and culture on their own or even mostly or that obviously that Christianity is simply about society, but it also would be wrong to think that they can achieve nothing, not even removing certain obstacles. It is also the case that it would be better for Christians, in all spheres of their life, when thinking about politics, economic and society(or indeed topics like nature or art.) to start with the same principles they hold in their spiritual lives and not abandon them for modernist ones; this can only create problems(though I’m obviously not going to go as far as saying that they must be bad Christians in their spiritual lives if they allow non-Christian principles a large place in their socio-political thought.).
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Some things distributism can achieve, or try to, off the top of my head include; strengthening the family in society by giving more and easier access to real, productive property(not bits of paper.) which brings families together in a joint livelihood and interest; strengthening communities by giving them more power as against the centralised state and national and international corporations; foster a more critical, human and God based attitude towards technology which tries to look deeper at the consequences of new technology and how we use old technology and embraces much of the alternative or appropriate technology ideas of the likes of E.F Schumacher, Ivan Illich and Lewis Mumford; a greater respect for the ennvironment and acknowledge of the importance of nature, apprehended in a Christian way, and our stewardship over it; a rethinking of how we view economic consumption and the breaking of consumerist habits which prize ever-increasing consumption for its own sake; rethinking work so that it is less detirmental on the God-given nature, dignity and gifts of man, and, because it is such an important part of everyone’s lives, even so it can be benefifical in furthering our creative, social and spiritual aptitudes and gifts. This is just a very brief, inadequate overview(this is a combox after all.), but it should give you an idea of how radically different distributism is, and should be, from either actually existing capitalism or the schemes of free market dreamers.
at 11:35 PM
If I can be permitted to add to what Wessexman said, the social aim of devout Christians is to rebuild Christian society. While this cannot be brought about purely through economic reform, the conversion of hearts to Christ always taking precidence, economic reform does assist the process. Furthermore, since economics is, foundationally, a moral issue, the desire for economic reform becomes an imperative for those who consider the moral well being of society.
For a Christian, therefore, the objection to capitalism arises, not only because it objectifies human labour, but because it fosters individualistic behavior among the citizenry, since rational self-interest is the key driving force behind this system. Individualism leads to family breakdown and, ultimately, to loss of faith among citizens.
On the other hand, distributism activly encourages cooperative behaviour – it is not just one option among many. Furthermore, in recognising the family, not the individual or the company, as the basic unit of economy, it supports family life and, thus, provides a more stable foundation upon which faith can be based.
at 5:50 AM
Paul, Wessexman, & Stephen (and also Don from prior posts) thank you! I think I can now see the difference between what you have been saying what I have been receiving. You are advancing a framework that promotes Catholic social teaching as compared to one based on implied control simply through market means. I have always advanced Catholic social teaching but I have viewed capitalism as the vehicle that best promotes the dignity and rights of people for self-determination. I position that in contrast to socialism that rejects individual dignity and rights in favor of a colectivist dignity. It was John Adams who said “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Capitalism has allowed for the hugh growth and wide distribution of general wealth around the world. Our standard of living far exceeds that of our founding fathers, but we have lost a lot of our soul by way of succumbing to vice. Whether there is a clear process to implement distributism I’m not clear. I do know that I fully agree with the premise and the goals.
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Peace in Christ!
at 6:14 AM
Tim, nice to see we’re all on the same page.
A good place to start is Hilaire Belloc’s “Essay on the Restoration of Property”. There are also a lot of good articles on this site.
at 6:20 AM
It is very easy to criticize other econimic systems. And you that a lot. But your primary job is not to convince people that socialism and capitalism is bad we already know that. Your job is to convince people that distrubitism is a better ecenomic system. I dont really thank that you are doing a good job.
at 6:30 AM
+AMDG
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“But your primary job is not to convince people that socialism and capitalism is bad we already know that.” I disagree. People *don’t* already know that, by and large; indeed, we see people defending capitalism over and above even religion.
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In a debate like this one, where there’s a side arguing for a change and a side arguing against it, the side arguing against it is called the “status quo,” and it has the presumption, because there are costs associated with changing things that are not associated with staying the same. The affirmative—the side arguing for a change—has the burden to show that that change is warranted. So showing that our current system, which is one of the permutations of capitalism, is a bad system is a very important part of arguing that we ought to adopt a different one.
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“Your job is to convince people that distrubitism is a better ecenomic system. I dont really thank that you are doing a good job.” You may be right; but we’re doing our best. Give us some suggestions on how we can do better, and we’ll analyze them on their merits as we do everything else.
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Praise be to Christ the King!
at 9:04 AM
Samuel, have you actually read the many articles on this site? Or have you only read this article by Donald?